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 Post subject: Re: The 55: Re-Invented
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 4:47 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:28 pm
Posts: 23
Location: Phoenix, AZ
I guess regarding rear toe, we have to understand what happens when we lower these vehicles as well as what happens when the suspension cycles.

Previously my car was lowered in the rear, I had a bunch of toe in, I don't remember how much. When the rear suspension hits a bump, the wheel tucks and you get increased toe in. So in my car, if I hit a bump on one side of the car the rear would scoot around. This is why the aftermarket adjustable spring plates are typically a bit longer so you can correct this.

Now with my trans moved forward I have a bit of toe out and this effect is completely eliminated. I only made the toe plates after I moved the trans forward so I don't have any before and after data.

The custom front mount is great for fitment but not so great for keeping the nosecone stable. I am considering go back to a standard front mount or installing a rear traction bar. Always a project to work on!

And on top of all that you are autocrossing, so some toe out sounds right up your alley!


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 Post subject: Re: The 55: Re-Invented
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 5:58 pm 
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Der Luft Doktor
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Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:31 pm
Posts: 7072
Location: OC CA
Yeah, I'll probably aim for zero toe on the back and see what the car does with that plus 2-deg negative camber up front. The front is going to have a lot of traction, so I don't want the rear to be too loose. For sure going from the extreme rear toe in i have now to zero will loosen the back of the car up. If it's too tail happy at zero I plan to try a Camber Compensator, which does the opposite of a sway bar: it reduces roll stiffness. If I decide I want to be able to rotate the back of the car easier I will add a rear sway bar, or stiffer rear torsion bars, or stiffen up the Konis, or... so many tuning options! I'm having way to much fun f'ing around with this car now, honestly I think this is the most I've ever enjoyed it.

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55 Outlaw Oval- 231 hp daily driver :shock:
1953 Fleetwood Travel Trailer
2010 FJ Cruiser- The Mountain Goat
30 Ford Model A Pickup Hotrod
Conklin Performance & Engineering


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 Post subject: Re: The 55: Re-Invented
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 11:54 am 
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Der Luft Doktor
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Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:31 pm
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Location: OC CA
j-dub wrote:
I guess regarding rear toe, we have to understand what happens when we lower these vehicles as well as what happens when the suspension cycles.

Previously my car was lowered in the rear, I had a bunch of toe in, I don't remember how much. When the rear suspension hits a bump, the wheel tucks and you get increased toe in. So in my car, if I hit a bump on one side of the car the rear would scoot around. This is why the aftermarket adjustable spring plates are typically a bit longer so you can correct this.

Now with my trans moved forward I have a bit of toe out and this effect is completely eliminated. I only made the toe plates after I moved the trans forward so I don't have any before and after data.

The custom front mount is great for fitment but not so great for keeping the nosecone stable. I am considering go back to a standard front mount or installing a rear traction bar. Always a project to work on!

And on top of all that you are autocrossing, so some toe out sounds right up your alley!



By the way, why do you have a custom front/nosecone mount? I can't remember, you have an early car?
In my '55, I also made a custom front mount early on in the car, when I put in the trans David Crow built me. But when I had Rancho build my trans I went a head and had them put a Type II nosecone on it. Now I run a heavy duty stock mount up front. I really do need to install the mid mount I bought some time ago for it (tried once and couldn't get the trans studs to back out, I'll use heat next time). In the past I generally haven't launched the car real hard, more like "street starts." With the launch control rev limiter now and actually caring about tenths of a second that's going to change.

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-Brian
55 Outlaw Oval- 231 hp daily driver :shock:
1953 Fleetwood Travel Trailer
2010 FJ Cruiser- The Mountain Goat
30 Ford Model A Pickup Hotrod
Conklin Performance & Engineering


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 Post subject: Re: The 55: Re-Invented
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 7:46 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:28 pm
Posts: 23
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Yes, early car, dual carbs, moving the trans forward does make for more room for activities! The front mount is a Gene Berg 5 speed mount adopted to a 4 speed box. There is normal mid mount snubbers as well as two little snubbers near the nosecone. If I use aluminum for the midmount snubbers it feels great but obviously not that good regarding NVH and long drives.
Image

I also have a bus nose cone and hockey stick.

I was trying to figure out how to put a normal nose cone mount back in for the more secure mounting but also have the trans somewhat moved forward. Modify the pan, the mount or the nosecone itself?

I was looking at my selection of nose cone mounts:
Solid mount is 18mm
Rino front mount is 24mm
most of the stock style front mounts are 23mm but some of those have a 2-3 mm dish out of the front

I don't know which one I used last time I had a traditional mount in there but if I try again I will definitely use a dished mount.

I was considering trying to grind down the front mounting pad on the pan a bit but not sure how to do that so it stays straight/flat/level.



What were you using for your custom front mount?


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 Post subject: Re: The 55: Re-Invented
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 11:21 pm 
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Der Luft Doktor
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Location: OC CA
I took a Urethane mount and made a steel adapter that bolted to it to attach to the type I nose cone. Then for a while I had one of the solid adapter mounts you can buy. I looked but I couldn't find any pictures of it.

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-Brian
55 Outlaw Oval- 231 hp daily driver :shock:
1953 Fleetwood Travel Trailer
2010 FJ Cruiser- The Mountain Goat
30 Ford Model A Pickup Hotrod
Conklin Performance & Engineering


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 Post subject: Re: The 55: Re-Invented
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 8:10 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:28 pm
Posts: 23
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Over the weekend I went back to a traditional mount but I did the unthinkable, I ground 5mm off the pan mount. I then used the dished style front mount. It appears that overall the trans moved back 2mm from my previous forward position however that may be a good compromise of having a stronger nosecone mount. I imaging it will reduce a bit of my toe out in the rear as well. Replacing leaking pushrod tubes and rethinking my breather setup before the engine goes back in.


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 Post subject: Re: The 55: Re-Invented
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 7:52 am 
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Der Luft Doktor
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Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:31 pm
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Location: OC CA
Cool man, sounds like a good solution.

You should start a thread on your car, sounds like you've got a lot of good stuff going on with it. :thumbs:

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-Brian
55 Outlaw Oval- 231 hp daily driver :shock:
1953 Fleetwood Travel Trailer
2010 FJ Cruiser- The Mountain Goat
30 Ford Model A Pickup Hotrod
Conklin Performance & Engineering


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 Post subject: Re: The 55: Re-Invented
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:45 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:14 pm
Posts: 8
very cool car man. love the engine build. im currently stacking up parts to build my self a 2332cc. absolutely love you're build, that period look outlaw is on point.


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 Post subject: Re: The 55: Re-Invented
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:44 pm 
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Der Luft Doktor
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Posts: 7072
Location: OC CA
latecallookervw wrote:
very cool car man. love the engine build. im currently stacking up parts to build my self a 2332cc. absolutely love you're build, that period look outlaw is on point.


Thanks man, glad you like it! :beer:

_________________
-Brian
55 Outlaw Oval- 231 hp daily driver :shock:
1953 Fleetwood Travel Trailer
2010 FJ Cruiser- The Mountain Goat
30 Ford Model A Pickup Hotrod
Conklin Performance & Engineering


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