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 Post subject: Re: The 55: Re-Invented
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:24 pm 
ScottyG wrote:
I'm so proud of myself right now --- for simply keeping my mouth shut......

That's like saying "I better not say anything 'cause somebody will get mad..." w:pw
Tease!


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 Post subject: Re: The 55: Re-Invented
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:10 pm 
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Erik G wrote:
LSD is differnet in CA than in Texas. I admit to nothing except a good time...


RIP Mark

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyKbywmc9Y4[/youtube]



"But a Quaife isn't a LSD, that's a marketing ploy" :redguy: That's a swesome video Erik :thumbs:

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 Post subject: Re: The 55: Re-Invented
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:32 pm 
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Der Luft Doktor
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wow, looks like I missed all the fun!
from *my* understanding, the difference between a true LSD and an ATB is that with the LSD one wheel can have zero traction, and the diff will still lock and apply power to both wheels, like a spool would. With an ATB, they have a torque bias ratio that limits the ratio of traction between both wheels where the diff can still drive the wheel with most traction. That ratio could be say 3:1, so a long as one wheel has one third or more the traction of the other, it will still be able to apply power to the wheel with most traction. If one wheel has no traction, or less than the TBR compared to the other wheel, it behaves like an open diff. an open diff on the other hand will always send power to the wheel with the least amount if traction, which leads to the "one wheel burnout."
True LSD diffs usually use some type of clutch mechanism coupled to an open diff, and ATBs use an arrangement of helical gears and look nothing like an open diff.
the ATB diff is considered safer for a street car, more streetable, and better for auto-x. LSDs are considered better for high speed road racing. For drag racing I think they are roughly equal.

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IG: @mkzero55vw
'55 Outlaw Oval- 231 hp daily driver :shock:
'56 Oval Vert- Okrasa 36 hp
'52 Standard Split Window
1953 Fleetwood Travel Trailer
2010 FJ Cruiser- The Mountain Goat
30 Ford Model A Pickup Hotrod
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 Post subject: Re: The 55: Re-Invented
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:51 pm 
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I group clutch types and helical types under the LSD category, since both diff's limit slip they just do it differently plus there are hybrid ones that have helical gears and clutch discs. I'm a simpleton, it's either a open diff or LSD.

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'68 Westy "Zombie Response Vehicle" no blog yet but it will be epic


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 Post subject: Re: The 55: Re-Invented
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:53 pm 
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mk-Zero wrote:
wow, looks like I missed all the fun!
from *my* understanding, the difference between a true LSD and an ATB is that with the LSD one wheel can have zero traction, and the diff will still lock and apply power to both wheels, like a spool would. With an ATB, they have a torque bias ratio that limits the ratio of traction between both wheels where the diff can still drive the wheel with most traction. That ratio could be say 3:1, so a long as one wheel has one third or more the traction of the other, it will still be able to apply power to the wheel with most traction. If one wheel has no traction, or less than the TBR compared to the other wheel, it behaves like an open diff. an open diff on the other hand will always send power to the wheel with the least amount if traction, which leads to the "one wheel burnout."
True LSD diffs usually use some type of clutch mechanism coupled to an open diff, and ATBs use an arrangement of helical gears and look nothing like an open diff.
the ATB diff is considered safer for a street car, more streetable, and better for auto-x. LSDs are considered better for high speed road racing. For drag racing I think they are roughly equal.



Yep that is how Rancho described it to me when I had my tranny built for the ragtop . I cant wait for your feedback on how it handles. It is gonna be Bad Ass for sure!

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 Post subject: Re: The 55: Re-Invented
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:00 pm 
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Der Luft Doktor
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I think that's a reasonable way to think about it Nick. But they do behave differently once you pass the TBR of an ATB.
For me, I am probably more likely to auto-x my car than road race it on a track, and then just street driving and maybe some occasional canyon carving, so the ATB seemed best for me. Not to mention it will be nice to be able to launch it hard and have traction with both wheels when I need to put the occasional 400+ hp car in it's place ;)

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IG: @mkzero55vw
'55 Outlaw Oval- 231 hp daily driver :shock:
'56 Oval Vert- Okrasa 36 hp
'52 Standard Split Window
1953 Fleetwood Travel Trailer
2010 FJ Cruiser- The Mountain Goat
30 Ford Model A Pickup Hotrod
Conklin Performance & Engineering


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 Post subject: Re: The 55: Re-Invented
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:09 pm 
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ConcreteAce wrote:
mk-Zero wrote:
wow, looks like I missed all the fun!
from *my* understanding, the difference between a true LSD and an ATB is that with the LSD one wheel can have zero traction, and the diff will still lock and apply power to both wheels, like a spool would. With an ATB, they have a torque bias ratio that limits the ratio of traction between both wheels where the diff can still drive the wheel with most traction. That ratio could be say 3:1, so a long as one wheel has one third or more the traction of the other, it will still be able to apply power to the wheel with most traction. If one wheel has no traction, or less than the TBR compared to the other wheel, it behaves like an open diff. an open diff on the other hand will always send power to the wheel with the least amount if traction, which leads to the "one wheel burnout."
True LSD diffs usually use some type of clutch mechanism coupled to an open diff, and ATBs use an arrangement of helical gears and look nothing like an open diff.
the ATB diff is considered safer for a street car, more streetable, and better for auto-x. LSDs are considered better for high speed road racing. For drag racing I think they are roughly equal.



Yep that is how Rancho described it to me when I had my tranny built for the ragtop . I cant wait for your feedback on how it handles. It is gonna be Bad Ass for sure!


thanks, yeah, I can't wait!
Mike was cool and spent a lot of time discussing it with me, and of course I spent a lot of time researching it on the internet. there's a lot of good info out there. it seemed worth the money to me since I am trying to make my car handle now. before when I would exit a fast turn and nail it it would light up the inner wheel and the car wouldn't accelerate, then finally it would grab and take off like a bat out of hell. Im hoping that with the ATB I'll be able to apply power even under high cornering forces. Part of that will be sorting my chassis out too though to keep the rear inner wheel from unloading as much. Fun stuff!
:thumbs:

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IG: @mkzero55vw
'55 Outlaw Oval- 231 hp daily driver :shock:
'56 Oval Vert- Okrasa 36 hp
'52 Standard Split Window
1953 Fleetwood Travel Trailer
2010 FJ Cruiser- The Mountain Goat
30 Ford Model A Pickup Hotrod
Conklin Performance & Engineering


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 Post subject: Re: The 55: Re-Invented
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:24 am 
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Der Luft Doktor
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if anyones interested, Guard Transmissions, who makes my ATB diff, has some good info on ATBs vs. LSDs, and they make both, so its unbiased.
www.guardtransmission.com/tech_faq.html

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-Brian
IG: @mkzero55vw
'55 Outlaw Oval- 231 hp daily driver :shock:
'56 Oval Vert- Okrasa 36 hp
'52 Standard Split Window
1953 Fleetwood Travel Trailer
2010 FJ Cruiser- The Mountain Goat
30 Ford Model A Pickup Hotrod
Conklin Performance & Engineering


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 Post subject: Re: The 55: Re-Invented
PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:00 pm 
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Made a little progress on the rear suspension this weekend. I got the spring plate covers sanded and primed (they had been chromed at one point and were all rusty) and got the adjustable spring plates test fitted. they needed some material removed to clear the torsion housing and I needed to figure out how far to space the covers out to account for the adjustable spring plates. Once I get the covers painted I can install the spring plates for good, then the tranny is next.

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-Brian
IG: @mkzero55vw
'55 Outlaw Oval- 231 hp daily driver :shock:
'56 Oval Vert- Okrasa 36 hp
'52 Standard Split Window
1953 Fleetwood Travel Trailer
2010 FJ Cruiser- The Mountain Goat
30 Ford Model A Pickup Hotrod
Conklin Performance & Engineering


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 Post subject: Re: The 55: Re-Invented
PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:03 pm 
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Cool :thumbs:

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